Professional Story Workshop - Public Health Sciences at USC 2018

Paula Amezola: Just a few things before we get started. We are recording it, recording the presentation for our online students, so please try to be as quiet as you can with your cans of soda, as they can disrupt the audio. Also, please turn off your cell phones, and when other students come in, if you're in their way, just quietly let them through so that they can sit. Thank you so much for coming out today. I am Paula Amezola. I think I know about half of you. I do career services, and I coordinate these networking events with our employer partners, and our recruiting partners. I'm also an epidemiologist by training, and I wanted to share today that one of my ... Our team's publication was published today in the Journal of Health Communication, and it was a manuscript where we were testing participatory research in a rural city of California by the name of Winton. I'm just really excited, because it literally has taken us three years to get this published, and it just came out today, so I just wanted to share that with you.

I am a practicing public health professional, and I try to stay really in the loop of what's happening in epidemiology, but also in public health in general. Today, I have the privilege to have two recruiters from Real Staffing. I first want to introduce Emily Kenyon.

Emily Kenyon: Kenyon, yeah.

Paula Amezola: Kenyon. I'm like, "I should have asked her before." And she is the principle recruiter, like I said, for Real Life Sciences, and helps to build teams in innovative and groundbreaking biotech companies across Southern California. She has recruited for the biometrics market for the last two years, and specializes in placing biostatisticians, programmers and data managers in permanent and direct higher positions. She predominately represents managers, directors, and vice president candidates. I also have the privilege to introduce you to Paul Rappa.

Paul Rappa: Rappa, yeah.

Paula Amezola: Rappa. We had an interesting conversation. We met because he was interviewing one of our students, and I just thought it was so interesting, the questions he was asking. I said, "Would you like to come up to our students?" He said yes, and this is how this conversation, this workshop is taking place today. Paul is a recruitment consultant at Real Staffing, a specialist staffing agency focused on the life science industry. He leads the biometrics contract and consulting division in Southern California, and specializes in placing biostatistician programmers and data managers. Also, I do want to introduce Janet, who is the online program manager. And how many students online do we have now?

Janet: We have six participants from online.

Paula Amezola: Very nice.

Janet: Yes.

Paula Amezola: I love it. Okay, and we also, Sherry is the Master's of Science advisor, and she is helping in the front. So as you can tell, it takes a village to put these events together. Well, without further ado, I want to make sure we stay within our agenda. As you can tell, we have a pretty impacted agenda, and so we're first going to start with real staffing, and they're going to do an overview. Then they'll talk about trends and opportunities, and then we'll come back to the reason why we're here, which is to learn how to tell your professional story when you're looking for a job, internship or fellowship. We'll finish with panel questions. Before we get started, does anyone have any questions? No? Okay, so I'll give the mic to you, and you can come up here, if you prefer. It's up to you.

Emily Kenyon: Sure. Should I bring the mic, or that one?

Paula Amezola: This one works, too.

Emily Kenyon: Cool. Great. Well, thank you for the introduction, and for having us. We're happy to be here. Just a brief introduction, we won't make it too thorough. Paul and I work for Real Staffing, also known as Real Life Sciences. We are a subsidiary of a much, much larger recruitment firm that's actually a global agency, so we are all over Europe, Asia-Pac and the United States. Real is our life-sciences branch, so historically it has always been our most successful branch. Since you guys are in school, I don't know if you've interfaced too much with recruiters, but basically in recruitment, what we do is we help introduce top-quality candidates to companies in need. Real is, like I mentioned, specifically focused in the life sciences. So our major divisions is we recruit for pharmaceutical, biotech, medical device and diagnostics companies. That's kind of the gist of it.

Every single person on our team has a really niche, narrow focus that they recruit within. Our pharma and biotech division, we recruit pretty much exclusively within the realm of clinical development. If you think about anybody in clinical operations, you know, like medical backgrounds, regulatory quality. Paul and I actually both specialize in biometrics recruitment, so the majority of the people that we represent are biostatisticians, statistical programmers and the like, and clinical data managers. Our roles are pretty much identical. The only major difference is that I place people in direct hire, permanent salary positions, whereas Paul places contract, contract to hire consultants. So as a team together, we can help build entire biometrics teams in companies. That's the gist of it, pretty straightforward. So that's us, and that's Real.

Paula Amezola: Cool, thank you. Do you want to talk about trends?

Paul Rappa: Yeah.

Paula Amezola: All right. Do you want to ...

Paul Rappa: Do you want me to just come over here?

Paula Amezola: Sure.

Paul Rappa: Perfect. Regarding trends in the industry right now, it seems to be a little difficult for a lot of recent grads to get into biotech and pharmaceutical industries. What we've really noticed is a lot of people going to the CRO route, meaning the contract research organizations to help inexperienced within the field of clinical research. It's a great way to get exposed to a variety of new clinical trials, and working on different therapeutic areas. They also have intense training programs as well, so as recruiters, that's what we see in terms of hoping to get into that industry if that's the route that you want to go.

Emily Kenyon: Actually, a quick question. Are you guys pursuing predominantly pharmaceutical biotech companies, or what's the industry that you're looking for?

Paula Amezola: We have a good mix of everyone.

Emily Kenyon: Okay, got it. So obviously, we'll probably be the biggest help and expertise with specifically pharma and biotech. So with the trends that we've mentioned, that's where our focus is, so that's where we can offer the most advice. If that's not the area that you're in, feel free to grab us afterwards, and we can try to give you some advice, but at least that's where our major focus is.

Paula Amezola: Cool.

Paul Rappa: Good.

Emily Kenyon: Are you guys familiar with what a CRO is? A contract research organization? I saw a couple yes, a couple no. A CRO, all in all, is just simply an organization that biotech or pharma can outsource their clinical trials to. They would pay and hire the services of a CRO, in short, to run their clinical trial for them. Obviously, it's when they don't have the resources, or really just the bodies to do that. They would have to outsource, is pretty much what it's called. When you work for a CRO, you don't actually, you can imagine, right? A company may give a trial to a CRO to run, and then there are employees at that CRO who run it for them. And so, although you don't, at the end of the day, maybe have your name and your brand on the trial, right? Because you give it back to the pharma company to have ownership over.

You still get the exposure, and the opportunity to work on it. For a lot of people that are entry-level, they come to us and they say, "How do we get into the industry? How do we get our foot in the door?" CROs generally do hire more people. Since a lot of their roles do start as support positions, it's a good place for people to start to get into the industry. You can have the opportunity to work on all different kinds of trials, all different types of companies, different therapeutic areas, everything. Versus with a pharma company, they may be more geared towards wanting to hire people with more experience, because they have less people in-house to do it themselves. It is a good option, and then from there, it's generally a lot easier to move into a pharma company.

Paul Rappa: Well said. Yeah, and something else that's been really booming in the industry, too, is a focus on oncology studies, specifically as well. I'm not sure if you've heard anything, a lot about this, especially with immunotherapy. We started to see that as a center of interest for a lot of the candidates, especially from the client side, as well, since they tend to be some of the more difficult studies to be involved with, and are creating a higher demand for people with some sort of oncology background. Working at a CRO, as Emily said, will get you experience in a variety of therapeutic areas. If oncology is one of the more complex studies, it helps define and fine-tune your skill set to help contribute to a lot of other studies, as well.

Emily Kenyon: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think oncology, as a therapeutic area specifically is probably the only therapeutic area that from a hiring manager's perspective is a required therapeutic area. For example, for a lot of our clients that are in GI, or inflammation, while it may be helpful to have experience working in that trial, it's not generally required, because the way that you would design and implement the studies is usually the same. Oncology is usually considered a bit more complex, so if you have the opportunity to, as a CRO, specifically work on oncology, that could really help you later on within moving into a pharma that's focused on that type of treatment. Similarly, rare diseases, since rare diseases are very complex to design a trial. So, for a biostatistician who is working in a rare disease, that could be a really huge selling point for somebody.

Another thing that we were thinking of, in terms of a great way to, I was looking at a lot of the candidates that I work with, and where they started. I think that on top of CRO, which is generally the easiest place, another really great place to look is really big pharma, right? When you think of the big, major players in the country, they have these huge, huge teams, right? So they have lots of people that they hire, lots of people at all different levels. For us, working in Southern California, the region around here, we majorly see small to medium-sized biotechs. There's not a lot of entry-level, or more junior employees, just because there's so few people on each team. If you want to jump right in industry as well, and if CRO is not the route you want to go, I would definitely target big pharma, just because that's absolutely where you will see more positions.

Alexandra: Hi, my name is Alexandra. I started my second year [inaudible 00: 13: 18]. You are talking about big pharma companies, as if they were just big pharma. But just, if they were [inaudible 00: 13: 25] San Francisco, like Genentech. But it is kind of impossible to start there from an entry-level position. All of their requirements are three to five years.

Emily Kenyon: Yeah, that's a really good point. At the end of the day, a lot of those companies will say that they don't want anyone entry-level, because they want somebody that they can train easier. Our advice is, I still would apply. I know that it may seem scary or a bit daunting because they say it's three to five years, but I'm sure Paul will touch on this with your cover letter, and how you can market and describe your background. At the end of the day, they need people to help with really hands-on support positions, right? That's likely where you would start. If you're finding you're getting to a place where no one will even consider me because I haven't worked yet in the industry, like we mentioned, CRO may be a good route to start.

Alexandra: There's also another point. I know a lot of people around me who work for these companies, and a lot of them are working there because of their friends, not just walking in off the street. I work in there, I want to take you to work with me, but they will not take a brand new person off the street.

Emily Kenyon: Really?

Alexandra: Yeah.

Emily Kenyon: Well, that's good to hear. I mean, I think that obviously it may be company-specific, right? There's a lot of companies out there, and a lot of different routes into different companies. Whether it's just applying online, or if you are able to find an agency to partner with to represent you, who can get your CV in front of more people, right? Obviously yes, referrals are a great network, and I think we'll touch more a bit on how to best market yourself to get over that obstacle, but I totally understand. I mean, I think for us, we're trying to help provide a couple of solutions for entry-level people, and I say when in doubt, always send your CV, because you'll be surprised. When a company is really in crunch time, when they are getting to the point where they really need people on the desks and people to help, hopefully they will take the willingness, right?

Paul Rappa: And internships as well, are very important. I know there is a minimum of three years of experience sometimes on job descriptions, but I work with clients as well who will consider internships as work experience. It is on a client by client basis, but a lot of the major corporations also offer internships, so try to get involved in any way that you can, as early as you can, is definitely recommended.

Emily Kenyon: And that's sort of the major trends that we see. I would say, the last comment we wanted to make is something that we both experienced contractor and direct hire is, companies never stop asking, "Is this person still really hands-on?" What they mean by that is, are they still technical? Are they still able to still perform the hands-on, technical skill set? And directors, VPs that I place, they still want people who are willing to get in the data, and really still involved, and not just fully strategic. Our last little thing we wanted to say is, never lose that.

Paul Rappa: Yeah.

Emily Kenyon: Always remain hands-on, and always keep up with it.

Paul Rappa: Yeah, keep tuning your skills. One more thing I wanted to add, too, in terms of trends is, having statisticians or epidemiologists that are still in programming. Stats programming, even R as well. I know the FDA started doing sets missions through R, so taking outside courses, and just continuing to be really hands-on, and fine tuning your skills.

Paula Amezola: That's great. Any questions before? Do you have a question?

Audience Member: Okay, so I am an epidemiologist. I have my PhD in it. With that, I learned a lot of biostatistics, and I do programming in stats and so forth. If the position is for biostatisticians, would I still apply for that, even though my background is epidemiology?

Paul Rappa: Yeah, I'd say absolutely. I mean, if this is the route you want to go, it's all about how you market yourself. Your CV, your cover letter, we'll be talking about that later, but market yourself for the job that you want. Discuss the course that you've been taking that relates to biostatistics, and just make sure that you're really showing a passion for going that route in your cover letter, and just highlighting your skills at the top of your resume, but I say absolutely.

Emily Kenyon: I always say take job descriptions with a grain of salt, because I can tell you from helping hiring managers write job descriptions, HR and even hiring managers, they put together a job description that describes their ideal, perfect candidate, right? And 90% of the time, that person doesn't exist. A lot of times, they are creating a job description for somebody who they used to be 10 years ago, right? So take it with a grain of salt, because we definitely have taken job descriptions and reformed them. Found somebody that has created a completely different position, or through the interview process, and meeting someone great with a little bit of a different background, they realized, "Oh, that person could still really be helpful." So absolutely, why not try?

Paula Amezola: Interesting, thank you. We hope to have some panel discussion after the presentation, so we'll move on to the presentation now.

Paul Rappa: Is that in here?

Emily Kenyon: You might be wondering, why is it? Before I move to the presentation, I want to discuss the question about, you're an epidemiologist, can you apply as a statistician? Well, when I graduated a few years back, I applied to an epidemiology position. I was the lead epidemiologist at the Gay and Lesbian Center here in Los Angeles, and I want to say that I was bored after four years, because all I was doing was data, data, data. And so I then said, "Okay, I need to broaden my skill sets. Where do I want to do it?" I had been introduced to a methodology of community participatory research, and so I applied to a position with the National Cancer Institute, where I was doing participatory research. Even, I just mentioned earlier at this presentation that the publication that came out today is on community participatory research.

It's about what you want to do, what you're interested in, and how can you make it fit within your skill sets and experiences? I also never went to school to become a career advisor. However, I have been, since I found public health, I have been passionate about developing and further strengthening the public health workforce. And so, I felt that this position would be an opportunity for me to collaborate with national organizations such as the American Public Health Association, and the Association of Schools and Programs of Public Health, and leverage my position as a co-chair there to strengthen the public health workforce overall. And so, these two examples really show how I didn't have the training in participatory research, and I didn't have the training in career advising. However, I market myself, I branded myself, I volunteered on projects so that I could gain some expert content knowledge. That's how I became involved with these two very different career tracks. I just wanted to add that to your question.

You all may be wondering why this presentation is called A Professional Story. It really is because I did a project on stories, a research project, and we basically tested how a narrative, meaning a story, drama, is more productive and more effective in communicating a message than a documentary that lists things. And so, after doing that research with Dr. [inaudible 00: 22: 22] here in our department, I felt ... We found out that the people that watched the narrative, the drama were twice as likely to go and Angel or behavior, and actually go to the doctor and get a pap test. The films were on cervical cancer. That experience really has shaped this presentation, because I believe that your professional career is just your personal story. When I just started working here, I encountered students that would say, "You want to see my resume?"

They would literally hold onto their resume for dear life, like something was going to ... Like it was going to burn if I took a look at it. And so, I really hope that from this experience, from this workshop, you take away that your resume, your cover letter, your LinkedIn profile are just part of your professional story. Own it, disseminate it, share it, because otherwise you won't be found, and you won't find that job that is going to make you happy. So in a nutshell, this is called Professional Story because we're talk about how you can transform what we typically see in our resume, a list of things. You list your education, you list your experience, and a lot of us, including myself when I just graduated, literally would copy the scope of work from the job description, and put it under experience, or we would just list 100 things under skills because we did all of those things. I want you to change that, because what I hope is that you learn to use a story to tell your professional story.

What a story has in common with this method that I'm going to introduce to you is that you set up a story, right? The situation. Then there's a climax, action happens, and then there's an ending, a resolution. Something happened. Yes, I was the producer of two films at the school cinema, so that was part of the research, and I had to study this because again, I had no clue what the components of the story was, and the arc of the story. But this is so relevant for your life today, and for the rest of your life, because if you learn how to write the star accomplishment, which is you set up an accomplishment by talking about the situation. Maybe it's your problem. Maybe it's your role in that institution. You talk about your specific actions, and then you end it by talking about the results. I will guarantee you, whoever reads your professional documents is going to believe what you have done is effective, productive, and they want you on their team.

They're going to remember you. You don't want to go to, you don't want a recruiter to review your resume and cover letter and be like, "Oh, that person went to USC." You want the recruiter or the hiring manager to review your resume, your cover letter and say that individual that had that amazing experience creating that participatory research. You want them to remember you by what you have accomplished, not by the list of things that you have done. I'm just going to move on to the example. This is, in 2014 it was mandated that any clinic and hospital needed to have an electronic medical record. Do clinical trials need to have electronic medical records? They do? Okay, so this is very appropriate.

So, hospitals around LA were trying to hire our NPH students because they couldn't find anybody that could help them implement an EMR system. The person that was hired would have to research the EMR systems. They had to negotiate this, yes, as clinical trials, hospital research. Finances will always be part of your life. Nothing happens without money. Then you found out, maybe the top three options. You put a proposal together. You chose a vendor, you negotiated down a bid. What does that look like, right? This is part of the story. The results, the hospital now complies with the law, and patients and staff are noticing that there's more efficiency in the delivery of care.

How it would look in your resume would be something like this. Save the hospital 25% off their bid to implement the first EMR by researching, negotiating and resolving on a system that improved the delivery of care to patients. I encourage you to start practicing this method, and to use it in your cover letter, use it in your resume, use it in your LinkedIn account. I want to say, I didn't invent this method. This method is an interview method, so when you go to interviewing, this is how you're supposed to answer questions. Not by, do you have data analysis experience? Yes. That is not what you want to do. What you want to do is set up the situation, the experience, the example.

Talk about your specific actions. A big mistake that I see is that sometimes, again you're thinking, "As a team, what have we accomplished?" And you talk about the team accomplishments. It's more important to talk about your accomplishments than to talk about the team accomplishments, because when you start talking about your own personal actions, you are going to sound like you are enthusiastic, and you are so excited to come and work for them. Versus when the team is talking, when you're talking for the team, then they're going to sense that difference. Then make sure that if there's any outcomes, any resolution, anything that you can talk about the result, make sure you included in all of your documents, and in the interview.

The worst thing you can say is, "I did this, this and this." And the response for that question. I did research, and this is why I'm so interested in this position, because I want to bring the lessons learned in my research experience to this position. Now you're telling them why you want to come. Do you have anything to say about why these presentations tell stories? Storytelling, not professional storytelling.

Paula Amezola: I was just thinking, actually, I haven't seen this method, but I think it's really going, because the truth is, I can't even tell you how many, probably thousands of resumes I've looked at. And they do, they all blend together. The funny thing is, there's so many people who on their resumes, when they describe their responsibilities. It's the same thing over and over again. You're like, "Yes, I understand that you're a biostatistician. I know what you do, what your responsibility is." Because in the same company, you'll have the same jobs. Your level might change, but it's the same thing over and over. But what this does is, it does truly tell a story, right? It differentiates you from every other person who has the exact same background who put their CV on their desk.

Another thing I really like that you said is, when you use specific examples. I've gotten that feedback from hiring managers quite a bit, that when I had asked them a question, they would say, "Yes, I've done that." Then the answer would end. Then it's like, "Okay, I don't believe you." Because you haven't actually shown me how you've done that, when you've done that, and even for, sometimes when you get in interviews, right? When you don't have the right answer you have to say, "No, I haven't done that." It's okay to say, "No, I haven't, but this is how I would do this." Or, "I remember an instance in school when I learned about this." You still have the knowledge of it, even if you don't. Using examples, and really concrete examples, I think is super crucial.

Emily Kenyon: So basically, tell your story. Tell it often, tell it well, and give examples.

Paula Amezola: I love what you said, Emily, about "I don't believe you." For those that have been to my resume review sessions one on one, quite a few, I tell them, "I don't believe you." I literally sit there and say, "I don't believe you," because in your content you want to make sure it's clear, it's concise and it's convincing. Again, I didn't invent that. You can Google it. The three Cs of making a great resume, and it's the truth. You have to convince the hiring managers that you can do the job. Otherwise, they're not going to hire you. Formats. Personally, I believe that formats that are clean and simple are the best formats for the health field. If you're an artist, if you're a filmmaker, if you are maybe even health communication, you can demonstrate your creativity in your professional documents through a website or blog.

Something in that's [inaudible 00: 33: 21]. Come on, we're public health professionals here. We're always on a budget, we're just trying to make sure that we can prevent the next outbreak, or that we can communicate why vaccines are important, or that we can communicate, "Hey, the water is contaminated. Don't drink it. There's lead pipes in Detroit." That's why it's important for us, our work, and we're constantly trying to make the world a little better. I like straight, simple lines. What do you guys like, as recruiters?

Paul Rappa: Yeah, I'd say definitely keep it simple. Obviously you want to share your experience, but you don't want to add too much fluff to the bullet points there. We'll be able to ... Us, and the hiring manager will be able to tell when you're just trying to expand your resume. We just want to make sure it's very clear and concise with your accomplishments. For each job that you, in terms of format, depending on your situation, how long you've been in the industry or if you're a recent grad, I would recommend putting your education at the top as well, because that's probably going to be the first thing that hiring managers look at, and just make sure it's very well formatted.

Go into your experience next, and just keep it very clear, concise and simple, but also make sure you're not leaving anything out, any important details about your experiences.

Emily Kenyon: It's funny, actually, before I recruited in pharma, I recruited in the tech industry, and I placed designers, actually. UX designers, and visual designers, and when I first ... As you can imagine, they're designers, right? All of their resumes are beautiful, colorful, big fonts. Everything is very trendy, honestly. Really, really cool logos and everything. Then when I went to recruit in pharma, I was like, "These resumes are so boring." But there's also the purpose, right? They should be clean, they should be simple, they should be quick to read. So yeah, format is important. Not a lot of colors, just keep it simple and straightforward.

Paula Amezola: And point here on proofreading, it is very important for any of us to have your resume proofread by others that are not in your field. The reason is, because if they don't understand what you're writing, then HR is not going to understand what you're writing, and oftentimes HR make the first cut when they're reviewing resumes. HR is not a public health professional. HR is not a biostatistician.

Emily Kenyon: Recruiters are not in public health.

Paula Amezola: Recruiters are not public health professionals, and so you need to make sure that when you're writing your content, that the lay person, someone that's not in your field will understand it. They also will look for grammar, spelling, grammar. Did I say grammar already? Yes, grammar. Grammar and grammar. English is my second language, so I always have it proofread by native speakers, and I encourage anybody who has English as a second language to please make sure that someone is reviewing your documents before you send them out.

And the last thing is, and I think it's one of the most important things is, utilize the job description to tailor your resume. Use their words from the job description when you're describing your experience. You use database management in your resume. The job description uses data mining. Which one should you use? Data mining, because when you start speaking the language of the organization, you will look like you belong in that organization. So, be responsive to the job description. That, I think is one of the most important things in resumes. Is there anything you want to add? No?

I'm going to go through this really quickly. Be clear, concise, make a positive impression and make sure they believe you. There's a handout that has a checklist out on that table, so please take it. Before I forget, I am an epidemiologist, and I am working on a paper on workforce development. So please turn in your evaluation at the end. You can also just drop it off at the table. These are some of the fonts that I encourage you to consider, but size 10 is too small for people that are over 30 years of age. So, just keep that in mind. I'm not 30, and 10 is too small for me. Okay.

The clean lines. If you saw the sorting method, I started with a verb. I used the verb "saved." Now, it's important for you to realize that the verb, "assisted, supported," are passive verbs, and you should not include them in your resume. Try to find verbs that are more descriptive of what you're doing. Coordinated, organized, planned. When you use passive verbs, again, half the world uses them in their resume. Do you want to be part of the half that use assisted, or the half that said, "I led the recruitment for a research study"? I don't know, I'd rather hire someone that says, "I led the recruitment in South LA for the research study on cervical cancer."

Then use the sort method to demonstrate your accomplishments. Don't just list what you have done. Now, people say, I've had students say, "This is really hard, to write these star accomplishments." It's only hard when you start writing them. I encourage you, the way that I've broken it down, I encourage you to take it. What's the situation? What are my actions? What is the result? Sometimes you'll be like, "Paula, there's no result here." And I'll be like, "Well, did you learn something?" Yes. "Well then, write that." I learned that I can produce, I learned that if I create checklists, then I will be 50% more effective and productive when I have a checklist versus when I don't.

That's an outcome, that's a result. You're learning how to be more effective as someone doing a particular task. I think that's it for the checklist. Like I said, this is in a handout, and if you have anything else to add?

Emily Kenyon: Nope.

Paula Amezola: These are some of the headings that I encourage you all to include in your resume. Please make sure you include your contact information always, and nowadays I encourage you to not include your address. I have heard from employers that sometimes if you live too far, they won't consider in the first interview batch. I think that that's really unfortunate because they don't know your story. They don't know that you're willing to move closer. They don't know that you've been planning to relocate to that area. You have family in the area, and so I really think it's important that if you have plans to move to San Francisco and you're applying to jobs in San Francisco, then use San Francisco as your city. I have a lot of students that are online that live in the Bay Area, and I'm like, "Do you have an address that you can utilize so that you're not disqualified, not even looked at because you're out of town?"

Those are some of the tips that I think are really not put out there in the world, because you only find out when you're speaking to a specific employer and they're like, "Oh. If I have to fly somebody out here, or I have to negotiate when they can fly out, when they can find the cheap flight, then I might not want to take the time to interview them, because it's just going to delay the process to bring them on board." That brings me to a second thing. Don't negotiate interview times. Hiring employers don't like to do that. They don't have time. They have jobs, and they need to fill the position as quickly and as effective as they can.

If you can move things in your personal life, then do that. It's really important. I like to put education at the end, because all of us here, by the time we graduate, we can put our education after our title. You can put NPH, you can put MS, you can put PhD. And so, that's how you tell the employer at the very top, on your header, what education level you have. Now, I know Paul mentioned that you can put your education at the top. That is also very common, and so I think that it's up to you, but I like it at the end. I like to put an executive summary, or an objective at the top kind of introduction to who you are and why they should hire you, instead of the education.

There's also some optional headings here, by optional, I literally mean utilize what's appropriate for the job description. If you have done a lot of activities around community service, and you're going to be applying to a nonprofit that does a lot of community service, then maybe you should include that. If you're applying to a job where you're going to be promoting healthy living, then maybe you can do hobbies or activities, like to run on the weekends, or ultra marathons. It shows that you are part, that you believe in that lifestyle, and that you will be a good role model to be teaching others about healthy living. This is just a template of a resume. You don't have to do it this way. It just shows clean lines, blank space, and opportunity for the hire manager to see where you are at.

I also like relevant experience, because then you can have gaps in your experience. Because if, for example, I have been in public health for 16 years. My CV is like six pages now. I don't want to submit six pages to the next position, especially if I'm working on a contract where I'm going to be doing research. I'm going to only include the relevant things, so that I can get that contract, and the hiring manager knows that I'm qualified. Okay, before we move on to cover letter, anything you want to add on resumes?

Paul Rappa: No, I think you did a good job in explaining it. My point, too, about the educational aspect of it, you are right. You could have the title next to the name, which really shows your capabilities there. You really could go either way.

Emily Kenyon: I do think that the very top, with the executive summary or objection is important. Like for me, that's the first place that my eyes go, is reading the summary. I think really, that doesn't have to be extremely descriptive, where you're using that method. It can truly be two years of experience, very just straight to the point. But that is the first place I look to see, is this person even qualified for the job I'm considering them for? Objective, I think can usually be handled in a cover letter, but at the very top it should just give the straight to the point summary of who you are and what you do so that I even know if it's worth reading the rest of your resume.

Paula Amezola: Well, this brings us to the cover letter, which is also part of your professional story. It's important for you to know that a cover letter, like Emily said, it shows why you are the best person for a specific job. Another way that you can think about it is that the cover letter is your bridge. You have to build this bridge for the hiring manager, to see how you are the best person for them. In the cover letter, it's not a place for you to put bullet points of everything you have done. It is a place for you to clearly connect downtown to the other side of the room. It is a place for you to make the connection for the employer, "I have skill. Research skill. I can bring this research skill to your company, and look what I have done. I did three research studies, they were more than $6 million, and we recruited more than 2,000 women at general hospital."

Now I'm going to believe you. I'm going to believe that you can do research, because you've given me some specifics. You've set up the situation, and you've given me an example. The worst thing you can do in a cover letter is list things. I encourage you to please give an example. So the first part, your opening paragraph, you're telling them what position you're applying. You're telling them how you heard about this position. Here, I like to say do a little name dropping if you have it. "A, I heard about this position from Will, who works there as a manager. They are recommending me."

Make sure that Will knows that you are going to be name dropping them in your cover letter. It's also important for you to put the requisition numbers. Typically job descriptions have a number. It makes that hiring manager, the HR, the recruiter's job so much simpler if you include that number. Is that right?

Paul Rappa: Hell yeah.

Paula Amezola: And in the opening paragraph, you have to show why you are enthusiastic about this position. If you don't do that, they're not going to read the rest of the letter. Now, when you move to the body of the cover letter, that's where you want to ensure that you are giving some concrete examples of your experience. I love one paragraph about experience and one paragraph about transferable skills. The reason I love transferable skills is because I'm a little lazy. I can use transferable skills for almost every single job description that I apply. I'm a team player, I'm a leader, I'm a manager, I'm a collaborator. I think these are skills that, regardless of where you go, will be useful for that position.

So think about, what's your strength? What is unique about you that is transferable from position X to position A? In the closing, you basically summarize what you just said in your example, your strength, and you tell them once more that you can be of value for that organization. You have to keep repeating that, because otherwise they're not going to believe you. Then the cover letter is also an opportunity for you to really explore the job description, and ensure that you haven't missed something. We had Blue Shield last year, and Blue Shield was recruiting for leaders, right? Their program is literally called Shield Emerging Leaders.

Well, it would have been great to write a cover letter that talks about why you are a leader, in what ways have you been a leader? That's the title of the position. Take a time to read the job description once again, before you submit your cover letter, and research the organization. Anything you want to add on cover letters?

Paul Rappa: Well, I think this is a good time to really sell yourself, especially if you think you might be underqualified for the physician. This is a way to really show the hiring manager that you're interested in what they're doing, and that you're capable of doing that job. It's really important, and it depends on the situation, too. If you're applying directly to a hiring manager, or through a website, cover letters are very important. With recruiters, it's a little bit different, because we essentially would act as a cover letter for you, as well. We do want to see that a cover letter, and so that's also one of the benefits of working through recruiters is that we're verbally expressing your cover letter to the hiring manager and saying why you're a good fit for the position.

Paula Amezola: Okay. The third component, and the final, because we don't have time to go over interviewing techniques. But the third place that you want to tell your professional story is LinkedIn. LinkedIn now is your personal online business partner. How many of you have a 100% complete LinkedIn account? Raise your hand.

Audience Member: It'll tell you what, 100%?

Paula Amezola: It will tell you you're an All-Star. It literally says All-Star. So, if you don't see on your LinkedIn account that you're an All-Star, they always make you feel good. Please take a moment to see what components of LinkedIn you're missing. Here are the must haves. Summary. In the past, when I've talked to recruiters that are recruiting from organizations, and that's one thing I wanted to mention. There are recruiters, like Emily and Paul, that work with many companies. There are other recruiters that recruit specifically for one organization. Blue Shield, for example we had Paige, she only recruits for Blue Shield. That is her sole responsibility. When I have talked to recruiters, and they have special LinkedIn accounts, they have told me that they literally decide, they read the first two sentences of your summary, and if they like that, they move on to review your LinkedIn account and your resume cover letter.

If they don't like those two lines, you're done. Think about that when you're writing your summary. Your summary should really be kind of like your cover letter, where you're highlighting your strengths, highlighting your skills. You can do that in a paragraph format. If you like, you can do it in a bullet point, in bullet points, and ensure that you are showing why you're uniquely talented. Your unique talent. Then you talk about your experience. LinkedIn has experienced, has volunteer, has projects. Make sure that you do all of them. For example, I had a job with USC. I was doing research, I was a project manager. That's part of my experience. Part of that, I had a project. The project goes into the project section.

I had to do volunteer work to build relationships at local hospitals so I could recruit from them. That would go under my volunteer. Although all these three things I did under one experience, they go into different sections. Your education, of course, make sure you highlight it. You spent a lot of time and money, please make sure you put the right, all your institutions there. Any institution that has given you a certificate, please add it to your LinkedIn account, and then your photo. In your photo, although LinkedIn is a social media platform, it is not as social as some of you may think. What that means is, you do not put your wedding picture as your profile picture.

You do not put you and your husband, or partner, or boyfriend, or girlfriend picture on the profile. This is you, looking professional. It doesn't need to be done by a professional, but you must look professional. No selfies, please.

Emily Kenyon: Snapchat filters. Sorry, a couple points. Truly, for every recruiter in the world should tell you that LinkedIn is their number one greatest, biggest tool. I could not do my job without LinkedIn. You had sort of mentioned it, Paul, but a lot of recruiters, us included, have special accounts that our company pays for. It's literally called LinkedIn Recruiter, and it's an application off of LinkedIn that allows us to search people more openly. The way that you can search it is by job title, by education, keywords, etc., and location. So when I know I am recruiting for a position, I will literally look up biostatistician, San Diego, PhD in statistics, for example. Or biostatistician, and then keywords, oncology, or FDA submission, whatever it is.

Just know that the things that you put into your LinkedIn profile are really important, because that is what makes you show up in searches, is the bottom line. With keywords, after your summary, as you were mentioning, you can have almost like a keyword section of words that you want to use that you know will truly highlight your background and reflect position. For example, if you know that maybe biostatistician won't show up on your normal profile. Put in a few keywords, just somewhere random on your profile, or in the skills section, you should just add a ton of skills, because then you will pop up. The only other thing I was going to say, also after your name, you can also put NPH, PhD.

So, even just when you search your name, I can already see where your education is before even clicking on your name, just like your resume.

Paul Rappa: One more thing on top of that, too. There's also a setting in there to where you could say that you're open to new opportunities. I think that's really important, because when I do get a new position available, that's the first place I looked, is who is actively on the market right now. So those are going to be the resumes, or the LinkedIn profiles that I view first.

Emily Kenyon: Yeah. As the recruiter, you actually do have to pay per message that you send, so if you've ever gotten a message from someone you're not connected to, they had their recruiter account, and were able to send you an inmail, is what it's called. But obviously, recruiters don't want to just send it to anybody. They want to make sure it's someone who is applicable, and someone who will respond. If you say in your settings, "Open to new opportunities," a recruiter will see that and say, "Oh, I know they're going to respond, so I'll actually send them that message."

Paula Amezola: So you build it, then what? Then you use it. Once you get that 100% profile, you use LinkedIn. If you are looking for a job, I suggest you're on LinkedIn at least three times a week. If you're not looking for a job, and maybe you're like, "Oh, what's out there?" Once a week. What you should be doing on LinkedIn is the following. Follow content that is pertinent to your profession. If you're a biostatistician, belong to groups that work with biostatisticians. There's epidemiology groups, there is public health groups. When you see content that you've read, comment on it. You don't have to write a whole article about it, but maybe comment on how you agree. Make a comment to the author, "Have you read this other article?"

Maybe it's a simple unlike, hashtag blah blah blah, because when somebody is searching biostatistician, and you wrote something on that, they're going to come out like, "Oh, this person is on the #biostat." You're now going to be part of the group that is tagged as #biostats. LinkedIn just recently, I don't know, in the last three months, started using hashtags. Basically, it's another filter. It's another way that LinkedIn is categorizing individuals, and showing, demonstrating that who is content expert on X or on Y. And so, like I said, it is a social media. Be careful with your hashtags and what you're putting yourself, because then when somebody searches, you're going to come out.

If the hashtag ... I mean, if you are doing research on, what's the content? Substance abuse? If that is your content expertise, then of course utilize those hashtags. Review, what are those hashtags so that you use it, and you come out in that content of that expertise.

Emily Kenyon: Be careful what you like though, too, because your page is just updated on your network either likes, or comments, or posts themselves. I've seen a lot of people who will just say, "Paul liked this," and it's a random article. You have to be very careful because if it's not something that you want to have yourself branded as, it'll show up just that you like that, so be careful about that.

Paula Amezola: When you're networking a person, make sure that you network with those same individuals online and through LinkedIn. What I typically do is if I met somebody at a conference, I write a note in the back of the card, and as soon as I'm no longer with this individual, I look him up on LinkedIn. I write two sentences. There is a character limit. I'm not going to remember right now, but it's less than 100 words.

Emily Kenyon: 200 characters.

Paula Amezola: 200 characters, okay. So you have one or two sentences to literally say, "Hi, we met at this conference. We talked about X. Love to network." And you send it off. They can agree or disagree. Why you want to make these connections is because if you ever want to reach that person again and, say, lost their card, you're going to have to pay inmail to send them an email. Make sure that when you're networking, you do it online, and you do it in person. Any volunteer opportunities, make sure you include them. Oftentimes we think, "Oh, that's just my volunteer work." Well I know firsthand from employers that sometimes volunteer work is, they consider it as equal importance is work that is paid, because you are dedicated enough to work for free and something that you are passionate in that you are going to excel in working at something that you really love and are passionate about.

So, really make sure that whenever you're volunteering your time, and that you put it on your LinkedIn account. Comments? No?

Emily Kenyon: Recommendations, you might have skipped it already.

Paula Amezola: Oh, I might have skipped it. Okay. Go for it.

Emily Kenyon: I'll steal it.

Paula Amezola: Yes.

Emily Kenyon: Yeah, I mean recommendations are straightforward. Obviously you can provide anybody a recommendation. I think they're called testimonials, actually on LinkedIn, right? But the nice thing is you actually can ask someone for a recommendation or a testimonial as well, and I think it's a really great way to just add a little bit of character. It's nice to see, you can see every person that, when you're looking at someone's profile, everyone who has given them one, and every person that they've given, as well. It's a really good way to also see, "Wow, this person did collaborate with people at all different levels." And obviously if it is someone who is your superior, it's great to have that on your profile, and on your brand before they even get to speak to you.

They know that manager would have recommended you, or that professor or advisor or whatever would have recommended you.

Paula Amezola: And I think it's equally important to give as well as receive, because sometimes you have to give a little to receive later. And so, consider when some of the PhD students here, you might have students that you worked with, and then they might ask you, "Hey, can you write me a letter?" I encourage you to write them a letter. Maybe you say, "Hey, can I do it on LinkedIn?" Because then it's less formal. You don't have to get the USC template, and it still demonstrates, it's still going to be helpful for that NS or NPH student to get the recommendation of the person that they work more closely day to day in the research project. Yes?

Emily Kenyon: So you're saying that if you run a recommendation for someone, that also shows up?

Paula Amezola: Yes.

Audience Member: Can that be a bad thing? Because if you're then writing a lot of recommendations, does that kind of look like you're just doing it to get one in return?

Emily Kenyon: I think that's sort of one of those things that I'm sure there could be some people out there who look at it that way, but in all honesty, if you're giving people recommendations, and helping other people get jobs, helping advance their careers, that shouldn't be a negative thing, right? That's a good thing. Maybe don't put 50 out there if you haven't gotten one. Of course, if there are people that you have worked with really closely, that you do truly know their work ethic and vice versa, they know yours, I think it's totally deserving, absolutely. I think I've given more than I've received.

Paula Amezola: Okay, so these are some parting words, and that is, when you're telling your professional story, be honest. Okay? It's very important for you to be honest, and tell what is your experience. Not the team's experience, but your experience. It's also very important for you to show your self-worth on all your professional documents, and especially when you are in an interview. It is your time to shine. It's not the time to be shy. It is not the time to be humble. It's the time for you to demonstrate your capabilities. Be proactive. Jobs are not going to land on your lap. If you want it, then you have to go and get it. Don't submit your application online, and then wait and say, "Why didn't I receive a call or an email?"

Find yourself an in that organization, so that someone can steward your application in that organization. Always have a resume that you can go to. You don't know when the job opportunity is going to come. This last year, we had a job opportunity from LA county, which was an amazing opportunity. It paid more than $100,000, open for eight hours. Yeah. Before you leave the organization, make sure that you identify who are going to be those key instructors, those key mentors that you can reach out once you leave the institution. It is important, during your time here, to track all your projects, all your work.

Your presentations. Track your projects, your homework. Because, you want to make sure that in two years, or five years, or seven years, when you're done with your degree, that you have plenty of things to say during the interviews. The worst thing that can happen, and I hear it all the time like, "Oh, I didn't save that paper." Or, "I lost that paper." Or, "I can't remember what we did in that class." So save everything. Finally, it is up to you to prove yourself to the hiring managers and to the recruiters. If you have the attitude of, "You can't refuse me," then maybe they won't, and maybe they will make you the offer.

If you can tell, I ran through this. I ran over time, but it was good because we had some discussion. Please make, if you have questions about resume, cover letter, any specific details, please make an appointment with me to discuss. I will even review your LinkedIn account if you want me to review it. That's what I'm here for, so you can make an appointment through this link. Anything else you would like to add before we move on, to more of the Q&A? Any questions from the audience? Yes?

Audience Member: So, my first year, I [inaudible 01: 11: 25] here, and I don't exactly know what kind of career I'm going to go into. I'm really passionate about the field of public health, and I'm slowly learning what my interests and my skills are. During the two years while I'm in the program, I was wondering how I can utilize LinkedIn so that ... You can never start too early. Before you leave the institution, you have connections, or even a job offer, maybe. Because two years is a long period of time, where if someone in a company like your profile, and likes what you have done, but you can't really work with them yet because you are already doing it, studying it, being a student or working a pretend job. Yeah, I just don't know how I can utilize LinkedIn during a two year gap that I'm a student.

Emily Kenyon: That's a good question, and I guess my advice would be, you can always connect with people. The nice thing about LinkedIn, I think is, I don't really know a lot of people, recruiters or even clients of mine that would reject somebody. With LinkedIn, a lot of people call it an open network, so a lot of people will just connect with everyone. Like Paul was mentioning, the nice thing about connecting with people is that you can send a quick note. You're welcome to say, "We haven't met yet, but I wanted to connect with you because I saw that you're a leader in the space. I'd love to stay current on what you're updating your network with." It's a great thing that every time they post a news article, or a video or something, or they like someone, for you to comment on it and just show your interest.

Those little, tiny things will definitely go noticed, I think. It's small, but it's still something where you can build a connection with somebody without even being in front of them. Also, as Paul was mentioning, there's so many groups. There's so many networks, honestly is what they call them, on LinkedIn that you can be a part of. And so, while you're still figuring out what it is you want to pursue, I would connect with all of them, right? Follow every single one. Who knows, maybe through even just seeing how people within that specific network are updating their profile, you may find your passion through that, as well. It's just, with LinkedIn, you can never do too much, right? You can connect with everybody. You can add as many groups, you can add as many details to your profile so that later on you can benefit from it. You can always take away later. Just delete people.

Paul Rappa: Yeah. To add onto that, LinkedIn gives you a ton of information about hiring managers at target companies, and you can learn from them. If you're interested in what a company is doing, just go on their LinkedIn page. You can search all the employees within that company, and find their leadership members, and then add them. I'm sure they'll want to connect with you. You can offer to take them to coffee, to lunch. It's more of a proactive approach during this. Even if you're towards the end of your degree program, and you're really more proactive in looking for a job. I mean, that's a great way to go about it, is to start to network with them. If you see companies hiring for a certain position, you can just go on to LinkedIn and try to locate that hiring manager. Send them a message saying, "Hey, I'm interested in the work that you're doing. Would love to chat."

Companies have phone numbers on their websites as well, and you can give the individual a call and say, "I'd love to meet with you and further discuss potentially working with your company down the line."

Audience Member: Thank you.

Paula Amezola: All right, so we're going to do some Q&A. Hopefully they're quick. These are questions we've had in the past, and this is a question I get asked the most in my office. I was asked this question 150 times last year. The question is, how long should my resume be?

Emily Kenyon: Everybody asks me that question. That is such a funny question. I think that people really hone in on that as, "How long should it be? This is the most important thing." I promise you, that's not the most important thing, out of all the things are going to do with your resume. But I've heard from a lot of people that the correct answer is trying to keep it to a page, two at max. I think the truth is that you can still provide a lot of really, really important and critical information in a page. Especially for a lot of you as you're still starting out, maybe obviously your resume is going to be a lot of help, and a lot of your volunteer work, a lot of your research work, and a lot of your school work. It doesn't need to be five, six pages, right? The truth is that the hiring manager probably won't read that much.

They want it to be straight to the point. They want it to be very clear. I can tell you that when I'm in a rush, and I look at the summary, I look at the title, the dates to see when they were there, the company and maybe the top couple lines. After that, it's sort of all a blur. To be honest, with each position, I don't think you need 10 bullet points. If your resume goes over a page, no one's going to not hire you because of that. Because halfway through the second page, no one is going to not hire you because of that, right? So say what you need to say without adding a lot of fluff. As Paul mentioned earlier, I think recruiters and hiring managers know when you're just kind of adding stuff to fill in space, and that's also not helpful, either, because that's when it starts to be where people question, "Did they really do this? Did this really make that much of an impact?"

Paula Amezola: Great answer. I tell my students, "Don't do more than two pages."

Emily Kenyon: Yeah.

Paula Amezola: One reason you will not get hired is if you left key experiences and accomplishments out because you were trying to do the one page limit. I literally had this experience happen my first year. One of the students came to all my workshops. We met one-on-one. I kept on telling her the same thing like, "Don't do more than two." But she came from a pharmaceutical background, and so she was determined that she was going to do one page. So, she started applying, and she asked me, "Hey, do you have a contact at this research group?" I said, "Yeah, I do." "Can you please forward my information?" I'm like, "Okay." I sent her information. I did not know what job she was applying. The hiring manager calls me and says, "Paula, the person you forwarded to me is not a person that I can hire. I need someone that can do data analysis, and she hasn't done any data analysis."

I was like, "Yes she has. She was on the primary evaluation class. She was on this class, because I had talked to her many times." "Well, it's not on her resume." So, that's a reason why you will not get hired, because you left things out trying to do the one page. All right, that leads to my next question. Oh, Paul, did you want to add something?

Paul Rappa: No, that's good.

Paula Amezola: Okay. How do you use cover letters, and are they optional if they don't mention it in the application, the online application?

Paul Rappa: I highly recommend doing cover letters, the reason being it really shows that you're interested in what the organization is doing. It allows you to explain your skill set, maybe you're not fully portraying it in your resume for one reason or another. It's just a way to go above and beyond. Most hiring managers that we work with will read the cover letter as well, because they want to learn a little bit more about your background, and how maybe your educational experience can relate to the opportunities that you're applying for. Again, I do highly recommend it. There is the other route that I mentioned earlier, too, going through recruiters. In that situation, you may not need a cover letter, but you want to make sure that you're fully sharing all that information with the recruiter that you're working with. You do want to be somewhat picky in terms of recruiters, as well. There are some that probably won't focus on volume, so you want to make sure you're really connecting with the recruiters that you choose.

That way, they're accurately portraying your experience and your interest in certain organizations. That's what we do, day in and day out. Overall, I do highly recommend having cover letters, because it really helps you go above and beyond just a simple resume.

Emily Kenyon: 30 seconds. I think with a cover letter, it shows your personality sometimes too, right? I mean, when you have the chance to write a cover letter, I think that's when you can show a little bit more of who you are. With your resume, it should be straight to the point, it should be very simple, but with your cover letter, you can show personality, right? You can use different adjectives and descriptive words that are things you would say about yourself, and more importantly, always, always, always talk about why you're interested in the company. I've seen a lot of people hired just because they showed genuine interest and passion in what the company was doing, and I've seen companies create positions for people because they saw that someone was so passionate about it, they had to give them a chance. That's what the cover letter is for.

Paula Amezola: Any questions in the audience or online? No? What are the benefits of working with recruiters outside of companies? Like yourselves.

Emily Kenyon: Like you mentioned, there's two types, right? We work for an agency. We work for a staffing firm, and for us, we have hundreds of clients. There's just so many different possibilities, so many different companies that we have the opportunity to get you in front of than you would by yourself, bottom line. Because for us, there's a couple of different ways, right? I'm sure you guys have applied to jobs, will apply to jobs where you feel like it's sort of a black hole. You'll apply online, spend all this time putting together the application, and then you literally never hear any feedback. It can be a bit frustrating, I'm sure, because you don't know, "Was I not a good fit? Did they not even see it? What happened?" With recruiters, they should absolutely keep you informed throughout the entire process. You should never be left in the dark. That means prepping for the interviews, giving you feedback, good or bad, in all honesty, and probably the most important is helping with negotiations.

Their offer, the title, all those things. On top of that, like I mentioned, we have a lot of clients that you might not have access to. So, Paul and I work a lot of positions that you would never find online. I work, we have different ways that we work with different companies, but a lot, you won't even see a job posting for, because we worked exclusively with the client. It's just access to more clients, and bottom line is what Paul said. Be wary, there's a lot of us out there. Unfortunately, there's a lot of recruiters that have given other agencies a pretty bad name, because they are the ones that don't take care of people, and don't build relationships. Be selective, and definitely be careful. You don't have to work with a recruiter that you don't feel like you can trust, because they should be your biggest ally. They will represent you. They will negotiate your salary. You have to really trust them, and you can usually tell that from the first conversation.

If all they're asking you is checking off boxes to make sure you fit this job description, they're probably not in it for you. They're probably in it for themselves. Recruiters are the greatest resource, but be careful. Be selective.

Paula Amezola: Be careful. I like that. Well, I think negotiation, I've only been here doing career services for three years, and the hardest thing for me is motivating and encouraging mostly women to negotiate when the offer comes. I always tell them, "It's up to you to negotiate, but you should negotiate. You're going to have to sooner or later start negotiating." It is difficult, but most of the women that I have worked with, when it comes to that phase, they do not negotiate. And so, to be frank, you will need to negotiate. I've been at USC for 13 years. Every position that I've had to move, I've had to negotiate my move, with my current employer, or my future employer, and so negotiation is part of a game of your professional story. Start learning how to do it, and if recruiters can be an ally for you, then maybe that's an opportunity for you, because it is the hardest thing to do.

Emily Kenyon: I love that you said that, because it's so true. Truly, whether you work with a recruiter or not, you can always negotiate. Don't feel like if you get an offer, don't feel like you will come off the wrong way if you try to ask a little bit more, or try to ask for something. You can put it in a way that's still very positive, like "I'm extremely excited about this opportunity. I'm so grateful that you guys want me to join the team. I do have a lot to think about, and this is something that would help me make this decision, and make me more confident in this decision." That's how you can negotiate. Don't feel like you can't because you're right out of school, or you don't want to risk losing it. The worst that will happen is they'll say, "No, that's the best offer," and you've tried.

But you're so right. Even as you work up in a company, you ask for promotions. Still keep track of what you're doing and your achievements, because that's what you can do in your reviews. Those are the examples that you can put together to ask for more money later on, and for promotion. So, really good point. All right, any questions? Yes?

Janet: So, we had a question from Claudia online. She said, "Can you talk about the use of robots to scan resumes in webpages like profiles? What can you do to be sure the robots read your resumes correctly, or is it true that the only way to be sure the robots reading your resume correctly is by hiring a professional resume writing company?"

Emily Kenyon: That is an interesting question. I've actually never been asked that before, but I love it. Totally, this is a huge trend right now. Somebody told me a couple months ago, "You know, you're not going to have a job soon, because you're going to be replaced by a robot." Oh, that's great. That's all I do, is read resumes. So, I think that unfortunately, those robots are not people. Yes, they do scan, but adding keywords. You generally can tell if you're putting your resume into some sort of database, or like an online system that will be scanned by a robot. It's generally like a big, massive database. It's not when you directly send it to a company, or directly send it to a recruiter.

If that's the case, then add keywords somewhere. Make sure that every time you're describing your responsibilities, use the different word. Like you said, if it's data mining, or data event management. Mix up those terms so that you're maximizing the keywords that you're using, even if in your objective, or in your summary at the very top, even just spelling it out if that's really what you're worried about. The truth is that a robot is not replacing our job, because at the end of the day, yes, there are these tech advances that can scan resumes and make this all quicker, but nobody will hire through a robot, right? Nobody is going to hire somebody based purely off of a resume, based purely off of keywords. They have to meet you. They have to get to know you, and people hire for people more than anything else. Like, the people part of you, if that makes sense. So at the end of the day, get your resume in front of the actual recruiter who is recruiting it.

Get your resume in front of the actual hiring manager directly, and so you can just get rid of that robot. I hope that answers that.

Paula Amezola: One of the things that I know that I've talked to employers who use computerized scanning to do like, the first filter of applications is, don't put anything fancy, any art in your resume. Any lines. These come as blocks in the resume when the computer scans it, because the algorithm is scanning for words. And so, whenever you put anything that is not a word, it's not text, it's going to just be gibberish. It's important again, going back to format, clean, simple lines. Even that line, everybody puts a line right under their name. Even that line can be read incorrectly by these computerized systems, so keep that in mind. Like I said, don't ... Finding a job, submitting a job online is only 20% of the equation. And so, if that's all you're doing, then you're really limiting your chances of getting that job. You must find someone to steward your application into that organization through what Paul said, informational interviews, making a contact in the company.

Reaching out to your current network to see if they know somebody in the company. These are all ...

Emily Kenyon: Actually, what's why LinkedIn is great, because when somebody posts a job on LinkedIn, you can actually see who specifically posted it. It's generally HR at that company, or a recruiter at that company. Or for us, when we post jobs for our clients, they'll have our picture on it. You can seriously go and connect with that person and say, "I saw this job ad. I did apply, but I wanted to extend another outreach to say how interested I am, and I would really appreciate if you could review my resume." If it's a small company and they don't have HR, it is generally the hiring manager directly. Also, when you go to the job, on the side it will say ... if you have somebody who works at that company, or you know somebody who knows the person close to the job, it'll say, "Hey, can you?"

It will say to ask for a referral. It actually has an automated message that it puts in there like, "Hey Paul, I saw that you know this person. Can you introduce me? Because I'm interested in this job." It really does. LinkedIn is great, but don't be afraid to connect with people, and doubly express your interest, because that really shows them that you went out of your way.

Paula Amezola: Okay. I think this is going to be our last question, because I do want for you to meet our recruiters. If I was coming to one of these workshops, and I was a student, and I knew there was going to be recruiters here, I would've brought my resume. How many of you have brought your resume? Okay, I'm doing a good job. Okay, my last question is, what skills or certificates can people get while in school? So, students come to class, and they take the classes here, but there's certificates they can do, or there's other classes they can take for the biometrics field, or pharmaceutical.

Paul Rappa: Yeah, there are a lot of certificates for a variety of universities around the region here. I suggest getting some regarding regulatory requirements. One in particular trend, I think you need that, it's required by all pharmaceutical and biotech companies is something called CDISC. Being able to follow the CDISC standards, and it's a way to just standardize the way that data is presented and analyzed to the FDA. When we're recruiting for a lot of these companies, that's one of the first questions they'll ask us is, what is their familiarity with the CDISC standards and all? I think it's really important that you get familiar with that. Also, I mentioned this earlier in the presentation, was programming. There are SaaS certifications that you can get as well, to continue to fine tune those skills. I mean, it's really a variety, and I think it's good to get a strong mix of programming, regulatory requirements, CDISC and all that.

Emily Kenyon: There's also a lot of data management and certificates you can get, as well. As well as, it was what you first mentioned, but just to go off of it. I think in every job description, one of the bullet points will be like strong knowledge of FDA regulations, ICH guidelines. I'm sure you're learning a lot of that in school, but you can definitely get more certification put on top of that. That's just like the core, everybody has to have it. It's something that every job description will absolutely have that. It's just the way to even learn it before you even get into the industry.

Paula Amezola: Okay. Well, thank you so much. We do have for you a little gift, and ... We have some USC swag. Our students kindly wrote you all thank you.

Emily Kenyon: Oh, that's nice.

Paula Amezola: We want to make you very comfortable. All right, thank you so much for driving all the way from San Diego. Please give them an applause, and I thank them for being candid, and responding to all our questions. I hope you can take a few more minutes to mingle with our students who are here present. I want to say thank you for those who are repeat attendants to the workshop, because it is going to facilitate your job search when you graduate. I promise you, you are going to learn what you are interested in, in these workshops, what you're not interested in, and what you should and shouldn't be doing when you're applying. Thank you for coming.

Emily Kenyon: Thank you, Paula.