Dr. Todd Grande: Hi Rick. How are you doing?
Jeff Pincin Jr.: I'm all right.
Dr. Todd Grande: You're all right?
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yep.
Dr. Todd Grande: What brings you in to counseling?
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Two weeks ago there was a fire at my apartment, okay. Now, now everybody's all right.
Dr. Todd Grande: Everybody's all right?
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Everybody that was in my apartment is all right.
Dr. Todd Grande: Okay.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: And everybody I knew was all right, but it was scary, you know?
Dr. Todd Grande: Sure.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: So what happened was electricians had just come in, they're doing some work. I didn't know what they were doing, I was at work, but they were doing something and I thought everything was fine. All the lights worked, everything was good. So I just came back from work and I was asleep, I was kind of dozing off and I thought I was still awake, but I started hearing these sparks and just kind of, I'm still asleep, I'm not really sure what's going on. So I started hearing these sparks and then the next thing I know I wake up and there's just smoke everywhere, like everywhere. I couldn't see anything. My eyes were tearing up. I couldn't keep them open for all that smoke and stuff. I didn't know where I was. I didn't know where the door was. I was in a panic. Nothing made sense in that moment.
Dr. Todd Grande: Really scary.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah, it was. So I panicked and I didn't know what to do and I was freaking out. It must've been at that point that the firemen came in. Now, my brother was also in the apartment. He must've gotten out at the same time I did. I don't know. But we're both safe and everything's fine but it scared me. I mean, it makes you think about the things that you take for granted. I go to work all the time.
Dr. Todd Grande: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff Pincin Jr.: All the time, and I do overtime and I go in on Saturdays and even Sundays if they would let me, just trying to make more money and buy more things and pay off this and do that and this and that and whatever, get more cars and then all kinds of stuff, you know? And then this happened and none of it was really worth anything. Everything was gone in the fire anyway. So what's that matter, you know? And all the time that I didn't spend with my family that I could have and it just made me second guess all of it. I used to want to get all kinds of stuff, but now that's not what I want anymore. I don't know, it's kind of weird, you know?
Dr. Todd Grande: So the way you relate to the world, you have a new perspective on it.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah, definitely. And it happened like that. You know how they say that stuff kind of flashes before your eyes when you think that you're going to die? It's kind of what happened. I didn't think about all my stuff first, I thought about like, I'm leaving all these people behind. I didn't think about any of the stuff, I thought about people.
Dr. Todd Grande: So at the moment you're facing death because you'd thought—
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah, I thought that was it. I didn't know what was going to happen. I thought any second, yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: That this life would be over.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: So at that moment when you're thinking that, what you're saying is you weren't thinking about all that you earned or advances in your career.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: No.
Dr. Todd Grande: None of that really seemed to come in the plight at what could have been that last moment.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah, no. No, I didn't think of any of it. But I thought I've worked so hard to get to that point and I didn't think of any of it. It was all useless in that moment. Because you kind of think of what's really worth it.
Dr. Todd Grande: So what do you think is valuable now?
Jeff Pincin Jr.: I don't know, things that will make a lasting impression like people, like family, like having relationships with people, like being with your parents and your siblings and people that you know, your friends, that stuff that really makes a difference, you know?
Dr. Todd Grande: So those relationships, those people, they have value. And it seems like you're kind of relating to that world more than the world of objects.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: Which is what you seemed to be relating to more before.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Todd Grande: And it's because of this really frightening experience where you could have lost your life.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah. Yeah, I mean there's… we're dealing with the insurance company and all that, but it's almost like, I don't even want to buy any more stuff off the money they give. What's it really going to matter anyway, you know? Thankfully, I still have all the people that I know and love, but just like that, it could've been over.
Dr. Todd Grande: Had that ever occurred to you before this incident?
Jeff Pincin Jr.: I mean, you think about it sometimes. You're like, "Wow, really, I could die any second and I'm not going to see it coming maybe." But it's a whole different thing when you experience it. It's like that really could have been it.
Dr. Todd Grande: It could have been it. So before it was kind of more abstract the way you thought about death.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah. Yeah, and before I really kind of felt invincible, like, I'll die eventually, but not for 60 years, maybe I'll reach a hundred.
Dr. Todd Grande: So no real need to think about now. That's something—
Jeff Pincin Jr.: For the future.
Dr. Todd Grande: —way down the road.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: But now the concept for you is a little more concrete.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: Because of what happened.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah, definitely.
Dr. Todd Grande: So it's kind of pushed into your view, that's what you're seeing now.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah, it is. I don't think I really think about it that often. You know, like, "Oh, I could die right now." It's not an anxious kind of thing, but I guess it's an awareness kind of thing. That I could, or have I been the person that I want to be? Or have I done what I wanted to do? Or have I been with the people that I wanted to be with or things like that. I don't know, it just kind of makes this new mentality I guess.
Dr. Todd Grande: So everyone who dies dies under some set of circumstances and does things prior to that, and maybe what's troubling you is you want to know that you've done all you can do with the people that are important to you. So when your time does come, which I hope would be way far in the future, you can appreciate that you really lived the way you wanted to live.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: Is that close?
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: Yeah.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: And in that moment with the fire, that's not the thought you were having. You think maybe you didn't use all the time in the way that would have been the best.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah. Yeah, I mean I have a lot of regrets. Like what if I had gone to see my parents more or what if I had been able to spend time with friends more or something like that, you know?
Dr. Todd Grande: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff Pincin Jr.: It's a scary thought, but it's real.
Dr. Todd Grande: Yeah. I guess for you kind of real all of a sudden.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: So there's a jolt that you had. This really kind of—
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: —changed your perspective.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: You come to this realization real quick. It's not something you think through. It's immediate in the moment, "I'm about to die." This is my thought. It's unreal. It's not something you can even replicate. I could never replicate that thought in that short amount of time with that intensity.
Dr. Todd Grande: Yeah. So you've had a strong, frightening experience and you've come out of it kind of existing and relating to another world on top of the world you were relating to.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: So it's the objects, not so much now, more people.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: You mentioned you didn't care about the objects with the insurance and that stuff.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah, so it's like why would I?, Why would I return to, you said the world, why would I want to return to that world of stuff, of objects, of accumulating things and just be right back where I was, you know?
Dr. Todd Grande: So it sounds to me like you want to channel this really negative and scary experience into something that can change your life in a positive way.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah, definitely. I mean, it already has really, you know what I mean? There's a part of me that just can never go back to an old mindset.
Dr. Todd Grande: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: It's kind of broken you free or it's helped you to break free.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah, I would say so. Yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: In terms of the way you think and relate and what you value.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Mm-hmm (affirmative), definitely.
Dr. Todd Grande: It forced you in a sense to take a hard look at your values.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah, it did.
Dr. Todd Grande: Yeah.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: A quick immediate look at the way I live my life, yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: So what do you think you can take moving forward from this experience?
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Really I think about… the thought that I had when I was in the fire.
Dr. Todd Grande: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff Pincin Jr.: This is the end and the who instead of the what. Really I think about that all the time, whatever I do. If I'm at work doing something and this thought pops in my head, it's just this feeling, I guess I feel this feeling of that similar feeling that I felt when I was in the fire. I thought it was the end, you know?
Dr. Todd Grande: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff Pincin Jr.: And it makes me kind of reconsider what I'm doing, instead of… Say like the other day, instead of working, it was lunchtime. Normally what I do is just work right through it, I get more done and that's what my boss likes. But instead of that I'm like, "That's not what this is about." So I went and I had lunch with some of my friends that I work with, and it made me feel good and it was like this is more so what it's about. If I'm going to be at work, I should really get to know the people that I'm working with.
Dr. Todd Grande: So in that moment of having lunch with them, you were feeling like you were really living life more the way you'd want it.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: And your first inclination before the fire would have been work through lunch?
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Right. Like work through lunch, get more stuff done then the boss will like me, have me come in on Saturday, maybe Sunday. But now it's like, why would I ever come in on Saturday or Sunday? I don't need to. I can spend time with other people, or even during lunch I can spend time with other people or I can go walk around outside. Like I did that the day after because I was like, "Wow, maybe I could see if they want to walk around too.? And we did and it was great. And there's a fulfillment there that I didn't have before. I thought everything was going smooth before and it was, but there wasn't an excitement there, there wasn't a vibrancy. The kind of stuff that I'm feeling now that I want to feel, that's kind of what it's about.
Dr. Todd Grande: So it made the world, in a sense, that moment made the world a much scarier place, but now it's made the world a place where you can be happier?
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah, I enjoy it more, appreciate it more. Yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: So you've had a lot of insight in a really short amount of time and you feel like the trajectory of your values and your life has changed.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: Like you're maybe finding more meaning.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Definitely. Absolutely. Yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: Well, what a powerful story, frightening and also value changing, a lot of different perspective. You have a lot to reflect on. It sounds like that's what you've been doing. You've been reflecting on—
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: —particularly that specific thought that you had in that moment. That thought is coming back and maybe reminding you of something that you want to think of.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Dr. Todd Grande: Yeah, not the scary part, but more the what do I value part. That's the thought that keeps coming back.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's no anxieties there or anything, or no real fear that stops me or anything, but it is more of the positive stuff. Like, what am I going to do with this now?
Dr. Todd Grande: Well, again, what a powerful story. I'm glad everybody's okay.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: And I think that you've taken away a lot from a brief, powerful frightening experience.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: It seems like you're really trying to channel it in a direction that's going to allow you more freedom and fulfillment out of life.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: I agree.
Dr. Todd Grande: So, let's do this. I'll see you again in a week if that works for you.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Todd Grande: Keep reflecting on how your values now are seeming to you, what they look like now as compared to what they looked like before? Because that's really what they're there is here, there's a discrepancy.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Todd Grande: Between a new version of you and an old version of you.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah, definitely.
Dr. Todd Grande: So if you could reflect on some of that and kind of tell me, much like you've told me here what have done differently, what's really changing and let's see what kind of insight we can uncover into how you're relating with these different environments.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Yeah, that's a great idea, definitely.
Dr. Todd Grande: Great. Well, I appreciate you coming in and I'll see you in a week.
Jeff Pincin Jr.: Sounds good. Thank you.
Dr. Todd Grande: Thanks, Rick.